"He just doesn't blink, Allen, in any of his work. I think that is one of the things that pinpoints him, picks him out as an individual filmmaker. He's not interested in blinking."
Quote from director Danny Boyle (Trainspotting)
Welcome to our discussion of one of my favorite directors, Alan Clarke. We will be focussing on his films 'Made in Britain', 'The Firm/Elephant' and 'Scum.'
Let the fun begin with David's commentary:
"Thanks for bringing Clarke's films to my attention! I think Oldman is right: in Hollywood, these would have been turned into bland, common "tragedies of the human soul," instead of what Clarke has made: a series of in your face films that say "look at the world that exists, not the world you want."
I too, did not know what was going on in Elephant, but all I needed was the words Northern Ireland for ALL OF IT to fall into place. In the 1930's they could make "The Informer," a movie about N. Ireland with people with real lives outside of ‘The Struggle’. Clarke could only show killing after killing after killing. (AND THEY SAY THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS PROGRESS!)
Watching both versions of "Scum" showed that even the mighty Clarke had to compromise for his audience. The original BBC version had better acting, more disturbing content, and a raw edge. The re-make was a bit too smooth. And there is no comparison between the portraits of the Archer character. In the BBC version this kid was a smart ass, in the movie version he became almost Christ-like. And the whole gay lover angle was taken out. Don’t get me wrong, there was still plenty to be disturbed about...
”The Firm” had the simplest message of all, as spoken by one of the characters: "Maybe we just like to beat people up." If these hooligans could stand the organization required, we might re-create the gladiator contests, and have them duke it out before or after a match, in the stadium, before a cheering crowd. A hooligan may have a respectable day job, but his heart is in the fights. “(Fight Club”, anyone?)
But my favorite was "Made in Britain." The main character (Trevor) was not born into a split society like N Ireland. He was not a common criminal who abused others and was abused in turn. He didn't lead a dual life, hoping to make it through. He was a kid who gave up on it all. He had no real beliefs, he just wanted to fight. Borstal was his goal and his joy when he made it (in the closing shot) was that of a boy who has finally won the girl after wooing her for years. At first I thought he was like the Ed Norton character in "American History X," but Ed really believed what he fought for. Trevor did not.
Thank you Alan, for producing a series of films that showed a Britain that is bleak and depressing. It is a nice change from all those stylized period pieces we see on film."
(Thanks David!)
May 05, 2009
Alan Clarke Film Festival Has Been Extended! It will end on June 14th.
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27 comments:
Lee, we watched all three films as well as the DOC about Clarke.I can't tell you just how much fun our weekend was watching all of this. Not pleasant material to be sure but powerful and honest and EOS. I can't think of a better director for you to have chosen. I am not much of a writer and have no idea where I would even begin but we anticipate a lively and interesting discussion on your blog per usual. Thank you so much for the unique recommendations, We use your Lee Just Watched list all the time. Keep up the good work and maybe some more photos?
L.E.M.,-B.M.M,-W.W.W.
Fantastic, really. And seeing a young already wild and crazy Tim Roth. I was most affected by Elephant-(did any one here see the the film that came out a few years back with the same name, quite obviously inspired by this) The lack of words and the blunt quiet brutality. Scum was just amazing, I am curious to see the differences between the one I watched and the BBC original. Did anyone here see the BBC one?
I always have been a Gary Oldman fan and his cportrayal of the leader of the pack in The Firm was as powerful as I would have expected. Sad that Mr. Clarke died well before his time, what a talent.
Bravo to Alan Clarke - I think I am most amazed by his ability to see the potential in unknown actors and to mentor them so well (Tim Roth, Ray Winstone...). I'm glad you suggested watching the biographical film as it put his whole body of work into perspective.
WELL, I WAITED ALL THIS TIME AND UNFORTUNATELY I REALLY COULD NOT WATCH BECAUSE THERE WAS
NO CAPTIONING AGAIN.
DID WATCH ELEPHANT THOUGH ,REALLY LIKED THE ABSCENCE OF BACKGROUND
MUSIC. VERY EFFECTIVE. BUT WHAT AM I MISSING?
IS THERE REALLY A NEED TO SHOW SENSLESS AND RANDOM KILLINGS.
AM I NOT SEEING SOME IMPORTANT EXISTENTIAL
MEANING?
WISH I COULD HAVE WATCHED THE OTHERS.
CHERRY, COME BACK. I REALLY MISS YOUR COMMENTS AND THOUGHTS.
Lee, we are wondering how you are doing as we noticed that you have been absent from the blog for some time.
Thanks for checking in on me Jim and Kate. Sorry I haven't been around lately, it has been an unusually busy time in my life and I've been on overload mode for quite some time. Nothing bad , just life stuff that must be done. .Also some new photography projects that need to be done by next week. I'll put up another slide show when I get a chance.
Welcome aboard Frank Jr. I'm happy to hear that you guys use the 'Just Watched' list, I'm going to post the latest one in the next few days.
About Face1952, I like the name! Wasm't it cool to see Tim Roth as a kid? Clarke certainly had the eye for spotting talent as Filmluver noted in his/her comment. And I agree, Gary Oldman ROCKS. Always has!
Sorry about the lack of subtitles/captioning on so much of this stuff SILVER. It pisses me off that they do not consider the needs of the hearing impaired. I think that it should be illegal to sell a DVD without them. Also, the accents can be so strong that even some of us that can hear clearly have a problem deciphering the dialogue! It seems that the only way to guarantee captioning is to watch non english speaking films. Pretty damn frustrating.
I hope people are watching some of these great films and will join in the conversation before the festival is over.
In answer to your question AboutFace, I did get to see both the BBC and the film version of Scum. The setting was even more dpressing than the film and many of the actors were different. Ray Winstone played the main character in both but the role of Archer was played by someone else who i found to be more believable. It's definitely worth watching.
Gus Van Sant's recent film "ELEPHANT" , obviously inspired by Clarke's film is a must see.
Watched every Clarke film on the blog list including the bio. WWW.LLI.
Glad to see you've extended this discussion a bit as I've been so busy I haven't had a chance yet to see all these films. I did watch the bio on Clarke which was much appreciated as I really knew nothing about him, and had only seen two of him movies, Rita, Sue and Bob Too - a sort of comedy -- and Made in Britain - something else entirely. Neither film would have ever been made in the States, and of course, neither found much of an audience here either. Rita & Sue concerns two high school teens having a menage a trois with a middle age man, Bob, for whom they babysit, yet with no psycho babble, no judgements. And it is funny, as well as bleak and depressing. I can only imagine what an American director would have done with this story. I think most of you have seen Made In Britain, a film without much of a plot but with an incredible raw atavistic anger that just blisters the screen. Agree with everyone, Tim Roth was amazing. Sean Penn in Bad Boys by contrast, is such a total wimp. I'm looking forward to Elephant and Scum, but in the meantime what strikes me about both Clarke's movies I have seen is that in spite of the very different apparent subject matter and genre, both are at heart political films, diatribes without any speechifying whatever on the failures of Margaret Thatcher's Britain. Maybe that's why they had trouble finding an audience in America. Just a thought. Will hopefully be able to get back here after viewing the other films. Now, it's off to the Black Hills for a week.
Hey Oldman!
Remember, it is because of you that this festival is taking place. Back in the discussion of "This is England" you referenced "Made in Britain". David and I saw that, got hooked and kept going with the Alan Clarke films. I only wish we could find a way to see the rest of his work as Netflix has only this limited batch. If anyone knows where we can rent more (such as "Rita, Sue and Bob too"), please let me know.
I've extended the festival as many folks have requested time to watch all of the films. Enjoy Black Hills and hope to hear from you again before we wrap things up on June 14th.
Silver, I'm wondering if you were aware that ELEPHANT was shot in Northern Ireland and was about the IRA shootings?
FILMLUVER
THANKS FOR CATCHING ME ON THAT.
NO I DID NOT KNOW THAT.DID NOT DO
MY HOMEWORK.
NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. AGAIN, I MADE AN A==
OF MYSELF AND SUSPECT I WILL DO SO AGAIN.
SILVER
Dear Silver,
I asked that question because I too watched ELEPHANT without realizing the 'context' and had the same feeling of "why am I watching this random useless violence?". It was only after watching again with the commentary (which you could not do!) that I realized this and saw it with a much different perspective. Did this happen to anyone else I wonder?
Ah yes, the question of 'context' in film. David and I had a heated discussion of just this subject after we watched the Clarke films together. I am hoping that David will write about it as soon as he is able. I find this to be a fascinating topic.
Hi Craft!
I'm thinking you guys are using the word context in the sense that do we need to have outside information NOT provided directly within the film itself in order for it to work?
Answer to Aboutface1952:
EXACTLY.
We anticipate that your conversation with David regarding context will be WWW! Please do post, this is a great topic.
Thanks for bringing Clarke's films to my attention! I think Oldman is right: in Hollywood these would have been turned into bland, common "tragedies of the human soul," instead of what Clarke has made: a series of in your face films that say "look at the world that exists, not the world you want."
I too, did not know what was going on in Elephant, but all I needed was the words Northern Ireland for ALL OF IT to fall into place. In the 1930's they could make "The Informer," a movie about N. Ireland with people with real lives outside of The Struggle. Clarke could only show killing after killing after killing. (AND THEY SAY THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS PROGRESS!)
Watching both versions of "Scum" showed that even the might Clarke had to compromise for his audience. The (first, though not shown till recently) BBC version had better acting, more disturbing content, and a raw edge. The re-make was a bit too smooth. And there is no comparison betwen the portrails of the "older" kid in the borstal (his name escapes me...) In the BBC version this kid was a smart as, in the movie version he became almost christ-like. And the whole gay lover angle was taken out. Dont get me wrong, there was still plenty to be disturbed about...
The Firm had the simplest message of all, as spoken by one of the characters: "Maybe we just like to beat people up." If these hooligans could stand the organization required, we might re-create the gladiator contests, and have them duke it out befre or after a match, in the stadium, before a cheering crowd. A hooligan may have a respectable day job, but his heart is in the fights. (Fight Club, anyone?)
But my favorite was "Made in Britian." The main character was not born into a split sociey like N Ireland. He was not a common criminal who abused others and was abused in turn. He didn't lead a dual life, hoping to make it through. He was a kid who gave up on it all. He had no real beliefs, he just wanted to fight. Borstal was his goal and his joy when he made it (in the closing shot) was that of a man who won the girl after wooing her for years. At first I thought he was like the Ed Norton character in "American History X," but Ed really believed what he fought for. Tim Roth did not.
Thank you Alan, for producing a seies of films that showed a Britian that is bleak and depressing. It is a nice change from all those period pieces we see on film.
I thought this might be of interest:
Elephant (1989) (TV)
The Firm (1988) (TV)
"Screenplay" (1 episode, 1987)
- Christine (1987) TV episode
Billy the Kid and the Green Baize Vampire (1987)
... aka Billy and the Vampire (Australia: TV title)
Road (1987)
Rita, Sue and Bob Too (1986)
Contact (1985) (TV)
Made in Britain (1982) (TV)
... aka Tales Out of School: Made in Britain (UK: series title)
Baal (1982) (TV)
"Play for Today" (11 episodes, 1970-1981)
- Psy-Warriors (1981) TV episode
- Beloved Enemy (1981) TV episode
- Nina (1978) TV episode
- Funny Farm (1975) TV episode
- A Follower for Emily (1974) TV episode
(6 more)
Scum (1979)
"BBC Play of the Month" (2 episodes, 1973-1978)
- Danton's Death (1978) TV episode
- The Love Girl and the Innocent (1973) TV episode
Scum (1977) (TV)
"BBC2 Playhouse" (1 episode, 1975)
- Diane (1975) TV episode
Achilles Heel (1973) (TV)
"The Edwardians" (1 episode, 1972)
- Horatio Bottomley (1972) TV episode
To Encourage the Others (1972) (TV)
"Thirty-Minute Theatre" (1 episode, 1972)
- Under the Age (1972) TV episode
"The Wednesday Play" (2 episodes, 1969-1970)
- Sovereign's Company (1970) TV episode
- The Last Train through Harecastle Tunnel (1969) TV episode
"The Gold Robbers" (1 episode, 1969)
- The Arrangement (1969) TV episode
"The Company of Five" (2 episodes, 1968)
- Gareth (1968) TV episode
- Stand by Your Screen (1968) TV episode
"Half Hour Story" (10 episodes, 1967-1968)
- Thief (1968) TV episode
- Nothing's Ever Over (1968) TV episode
- The Fifty Seventh Saturday (1968) TV episode
- Stella (1968) TV episode
- Goodnight Albert (1968) TV episode
(5 more)
"A Man of our Times" (3 episodes, 1968)
- Never Mind How We Got Here, Where Are We? (1968) TV episode
- Got Yourself Sorted Out at All? (1968) TV episode
- Sally Go Round the Moon (1968) TV episode
"The Informer" (1 episode, 1967)
- Let Sleeping Dogs Lie (1967) TV episode
Writer:
1980s
1970s
"Screenplay" (1 episode, 1987)
- Christine (1987) TV episode (writer)
"BBC Play of the Month" (1 episode, 1978)
- Danton's Death (1978) TV episode (television adaptation)
Self:
"The South Bank Show" .... Himself (1 episode
Trevor was just an asshole. A spellbinding one however. Shall we add him to our "It's raining men" list?
I also agree with you David about the character of Archer who goes up against the system in his own Vegetarian/Zen/Sufi master sort of way. The one in the film remake was way too Christlike but cute as hell.
Always a pleasure to hear from you Nevertoosoon. Your taste in men is impeccable.
Hey David, what happened to our discussion about 'context'?!
We got everyone all psyched up and then dropped the ball....Brain fog time.
Did enjoy your comments though and would like to paste it in the header as a 'guest' post. Permission?
Lee-permission granted.
Part One: So, finally had a chance to watch the rest of the films. Not sure "enjoy" would be the right be the correct term here, but certainly an interesting lot. Different characters, different situations, but the same primitive brutality, the same mindless destruction of self and others. Like David my "favorite" was Made in Britain. Perhaps it was simply Tim Roth's performance, but in a way too this is the film that most completely distills Clarke's message such as it is. The rage in each of the other films is somewhat comprehensible, or at least predictable, expected. Whether any of it makes sense you know the sort of depravity that goes on in prisons of all kinds everywhere, though to see it not merely tolerated but encouraged in a children's institution, what we would call a "Juvie," and in a country we usually think of as "civilized," Merrie Olde Englande, the nation of Shakespeare, Blake, Wordsworth, the Magna Carta, Monty Python etc. certainly makes it all the more shocking. Still, we know this is what happens when you lock people away like this: Lord of the Flies with walls. Elephant? Well, the fact that the violence in Ulster is rooted in historical events that go back centuries, that it's shot through with themes of religion, cultural domination and repression exacerbated by poverty, doesn't necessarily make it comprehensible, much less sensible, but again, it's not unexpected. The Firm, a film so far little mentioned here but one I liked particularly -- Gary Oldman's bravura performance is certainly not to be missed -- sets its violence in the world of football hooliganism. I saw a bit of this years ago when living in England though at that time it was perhaps not quite so violent, and certainly nowhere near so organized. Back then most of the participants were probably even football fans, and of course in The Firm there is nary a football -- or soccer ball -- to be seen. But then this was pre-Margaret Thatcher which is undoubtedly a good part of Clarke's point. In any case this type of violence is well known, and without disputing Clarke's "claim" that Thatcher had much responsibility to bear for unleashing the Bexys of Britain, is a phenomenon not restricted to England. Once more, the fact that football hooliganism is well and widely known doesn't make it any easier to understand, and what really sets it apart is that many of those involved are no longer youthful and certainly not disenfranchised. Those are BMWs they're driving after all, and even if the film's budget required that they burn a different and older model than the one driven to parking lot the point is still made. Bexy is no borstal boy or IRA lunatic, but a smart charismatic successful estate agent and family man. Why does he, why do any of them engage in this moronic behavior? I don't know, but there is one scene toward the very end of the film that could well stand as a sort of signature for all these movies. Just before he is shot, as he has finished beating Simon to a pulp and is still hovering over him, Bexy lets out a primal roar -- all that's missing is the beating of the chest. Guess this is "the buzz" he'd earlier said he needed! While his boys are caught up in some kind of herd mentality, Bexy himself, as crystallized in this moment probably comes closest in these other films to the solitary aimless rage of Tim Roth's character in Made in Britain, a movie set apart from the rest by the fact that Roth's behavior is not grounded in anything. He is not part of any group, not caught in some ancient internecine struggle, not in lock-up, not deprived. There is, in fact, absolutely no reason, good bad or indifferent, to explain or make sense of this all encompassing rage.
Part Two: David earlier mentioned the question of context in film and in a way Made in Britain is Elephant, and for that matter Scum and The Firm as well, stripped entirely of all context. In part, at least, this may be why Made in Britain packs such a punch, why it is so particularly troubling. It's violence for violence sake. There are no excuses -- and Roth's character certainly makes none. There are no convenient "explanations" such as are provided by each of the other films insane as they may be. Makes you wonder what stopping for a pint with Alan Clarke might have been like! He was known for tearing up the town. So while his films for the most part certainly carry strong anti-Thatcherism undertones, were they possibly more about the personal demons he wrestled with? I don't know, but you just can't make films like Scum, The Firm, Elephant and especially Made in Britain without raising the question "why." Think I've gone one long enough - and then some -- already, but as to "context," might as well jump in a bit here too. When I was in school back i the pleistocene I had a professor still enamored of what was called the "New Criticism." This held sway for some time, especially in America, but has waned in influence in recent decades. Basically the school of New Criticism held that a work of art should be judged entirely on its own, irrespective of context, details of the creator's life, of history, politics or anything else. This would mean that if you don't know from the Elephant itself the background of violence in northern Ireland it doesn't matter. I always had mixed feelings about this myself, but there are times when it can be a useful way to approach a work of art, and indeed I do think the most timeless art does tend to stand on its own without requiring explanations for extensive knowledge of history or the artist or anything else. With a film like Elephant that's a bit tricky. Made for TV in Britain, all those who saw it originally certainly knew the context, required no explanations, but clearly that is not the case for many of us watching this film today in America. We see it more or less stripped of that context -- and it becomes essentially Made in Britain. But in terms of what Clarke was really saying does that make it less comprehensible or more?
Hello and thanks to Oldman and David for well written, interesting and in depth commentary. I think Oldman has gotten us off to a great start about context and I'm in total agreement about The Firm. Lee, perhaps we could continue the context thread even after the Clarke Festival ends. It could be a topic for the 'Open Mike' forum.
Appreciated the playlist from JackR as well. Too bad most of Clarke's work is unavailable to us.
Something tells me there's an inside joke going on here (it's raining men?)that I missed.
For the record, I actually enjoyed the second Archer. They were both played well I thought, just differently.
Great stuff everyone!
As usual, Oldman, your insightful commentary
BMM.....
AboutFace, I'm totally with you on the idea of extending the context dialogue. And yeah, the "It's raining men" reference goes way back to the early days of the blog. Click on the link to the film 'After the Wedding', read the comments and you will be on board.
You guys are great, this is really a fun blog to read. Especially liked the posts on Kontroll and This is England.
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