Though I realize one can’t really put this DOC in the category of OTBP (Off The Beaten Path) the information it revealed to me regarding just how many of the countless musical delights I have enjoyed in my life had the common thread of being generated from the hopes , dreams and genius of one man’s vision was astounding. I am not well versed in music history so I’ll simply leave it at that. As always I look forward to reading your comments and gaining greater insight through them.
Some things on my mind:
. What’s up with ‘Kid Rock’?
. What’s up with Ahmet’s wife (she was ok with all the affairs?)
. Anyone have info regarding how Atlantic really ranked in the underpayment of royalties to the early artists? Payola issues?
. Ahmet died (at the age of 83) by slipping and hitting his head backstage at a Stones’ concert being given in honor of Bill Clinton’s 60th birthday…From the time Ahmet found himself in Harlem at age 12 partying with legends till dawn through his very last second on the planet this man was always where it was happenin…!
. Warner seems to have made the deal of the century when they purchased Atlantic. In two years they made back their investment just with the rights to the movie and soundtrack from ‘Woodstock’. Did Ahmet miss the boat on this or was it paid to him on the back end some how ?
May 24, 2008
Atlantic Records: The House That Ahmet Built Discussion Has Begun!
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16 comments:
As you say, Lee, not really an "Off The Beaten Path" film, but nonetheless one that despite my lifelong love of music I almost certainly would never have seen but for this blog. Thanks! Though Ahmet Ertegun's name and face have long been familiar to me, I really had no idea just how much he had accomplished. I can't even guess at how many Atlantic artists I have in my collection, from Ruth Brown, Big Joe Turner, The Drifters, Bobby Darin, Zeppelin, The Stones and CS&N, right through to Kid Rock. I have no idea how Atlantic compared with other labels in terms of royalty scamming etc., but if nothing else they were the first to recalculate those royalties where their early artists were concerned, in many cases "forgiving" debts and repaying large amounts. Was it enough? Undoubtedly not, but in perhaps the dirtiest industry in America Atlantic was probably a little less dirty than others. I always think of a couple lines from the movie "Be Cool," the sequel to "Get Shorty" in this connection. When Chili Palmer (John Travolta) is asked: "Who are all these people trying to kill you? He answers, "I don't know. I'm in the music business now. It could be anybody." My favorite, though, is when Harvey Keitel's character is reminding Chili Palmer -- formerly a movie producer and originally a mob enforcer -- that he's no longer in the movie business (long known for its corruption and "creative accounting"), explaining, "This is the music business. We’re all wise guys." Unfortunately, with only four major labels now responsible for more than 75% of all the music released annually in the USA things are probably worse overall than they have ever been. And with the "suits" controlling all of it -- instead of music lovers like Ertegun -- it's no wonder virtually all of that is crap. Not a life-changer, but especially for anyone interested in American popular music this was both an informative and truly enjoyable movie.
Lee and Oldman, your comments about this movie not being 'offthebeatenpath' made me think about what MY definition of that term is.
Ultimately I think this movie DOES belong in this category. It is a film that the majority of the film viewing public does not know exists and or would probably not have watched even if they did! I'm up for hearing what the rest of you define OTBP as.
Very fun movie, and like you guys, I learned a lot that I would never have known otherwise.
Interesting question. How do we define Off the Beaten Path in relation specifically to movies. Filmluver comes very close in that they are films one would not tend to come across on one's own unless they were spending a lot of effort trying to find movies that are, well, Off the Beaten Path!
It can't be 'Indie' films as a whole as many Indie films these days are far from OTBP such as "Juno' which got a lot of 'mainstream' attention.
My definition: never got near an Oscar nod (or a wink, or a twitch...) in the U.S.
Lee, what is your definition?
Caught the next film early, WWW.
Oh, and very sorry to hear about the fish. He seemed like quite a cool guy.
How sad. The only man in the music industry (shouldn't that be an oxymoron?) who seemed to love music more than money is gone. I never knew the details of Atlantic, they were just another record label to me when I grew up.
But I did learn early on that in the US at least, music was all about what would sell. Stick four good looking guys in a room who never met and sell them as a great band on a TV show? Sure! (I think Mad magazine helped me see the light here. My thanks go to "the usual gang of idiots!") The music industry sells us what we want, but convinces us of what we want as well.
I heard something on the radio a while back that hip-hop wasn't always guys singing about all their gold, their whores, and all the cops they want (us) to shoot. That was just a part of it, but when the (white) suits found that NWA (niggers with attitude) made sales, they shut down the other more self aware avenues of that world. So now old white men make money from white kids buying music about a highly distorted version of the black American experience. It's good to see how music really does bring us all together!
Despite the ongoing rhetoric of what Dasher calls "A session in bigotry", I can't recall EVER going down to the levy and not actually seeing it. So why is it that Ahmet continues this egotistical struggle to prove himself? A "Jazzman"? A "Bluesman"?...a self proclaimed "aficionado of punk"? I mean come on folks, let's cut to the chase and call this one what it is. Back in high school there were certain teachers there who would hurt the children. Rulers, religion, you name it. And who would of thought that a fact based expose' of half truths could compare to that? Oliver Stone once said that "A rat by another name can't be called a tragedy". That might be true if we were talking to his wife, but clearly we have NOT gotten off the beaten path here. First off we have Kid Rock spilling his guts about the musical process. Kid Rock? What the heck he is even doing in this film is a mystery to me. A third of the way into his rehearsed improv we cut to a scene in which Ahmet and his mother are fishing for crabs in her village. Why must we exploit this small village? For what purpose? To show that Ahmet has "roots"? I think we all know by the time Robert Plant and his freckled pal Page come into the picture that Ahmet has clearly paid his dues. I don't see anyone buying THAT script! Did I say "buy" me a script? It would seem that all Ahmet really had to do was to hold a mixed race, all night "sax" orgy in the Embassy and we were all supposed to jump and shout like it was 1999. For one thing, it's 2008 Ahmet. Let's all just drop the ballywacking for now, and grow up. The only saving grace for this 'mockumentary" was that Ron Howard came in to co-direct the second half of the "verve" narrative. Whenever a seasoned vet ventures into this territory we usually have co-creation mixed with a seductive wit that even Stone couldn't fix. But fortunately for Ertgun, Howard places the ball on the line and scores with only seconds left. All I can say is let's leave the Hippie nation to the pro's.
test...sent my full comment about an hour ago, and have not yet seen it...Does it need to be "approved" before posting...Just checking...Marc
It's a "hit"!! First, let me thank Lee Paris for "persuading" me to get back involved with Films off the Beaten Path, and especially with this great Documentary about Atlantic Records and the infatigable Ahmet! This guy was the man...Because my comments/reviews are about a Documentary film and not a narrative film, I like to break up my comments into two categories: the first is the subject matter itself - Ahmet, Atlantic Records, and the industry. And the second category is the actual filmaking - the Director's skill, the process, etc....
First, the man - Ahmet. What an intriguing little powerhouse. From Ray Charles, Bobby Darin, Aretha, Zeppelin AND the Stones - wow!! Could there have been a more influential Record company?! I literally knew nothing of this man before seeing this film, and it's revealing, to say the least, what an influence this one man had on "creating" American music, especially at a time when the record companies were so powerful - much like the movie studios used to be. (in fact, I believe Bette Midler, in her narration - alludes to the fact that Ahmet was as powerful as a Lous B. Mayer)...The most admirable aspect of Ahmet's personality is from his own quote: "The best way to predict the Future is to make it." That is a powerful, arrogant, and confident statement, and it sums up Ahmet's whole life. He literally cherry picked some of the best talent around the world, many before they were noticed and/or famous, and then through some sort of Ahmet "magic" helped to "package" these great talents for public consumption. I believe that - for the most part - because of Ahmet's "hands-off" approach, (especially with bands like Led Zeppelin), he was able to bridge that elusive gap between allowing an artist to flourish, while at the same time creating a "sellable" package, (hit songs that make actual money), while not losing the integrity of the music. Let's face it, Ahmet was in the music "business", and somehow he created this environment of musical integrity for the likes of Ray Charles, Aretha, and even the Stones - no small feat. I can see why all those musical stars literally love the man. I felt the film truly gave us an incredibly detailed and comprehensive look at the real "inside" workings of the music business, and that was fascinating filmaking...
Speaking of the filmaking - (my second part), I felt that although the Director(s) followed a fairly tried and true formula for Documentaries - such as head shots, voice overs, stock footage, etc., etc. - it was never dull, and in fact, was incredibly fast paced for a two-hour film, and I believe that the filmakers did a remarkable job putting together ALL that information. You can't say this film wasn't meticulously researched, filmed, and edited! I remember at one point in the film asking myself - hey, I'd like to now hear a bit more about Ahmet's personal life, and his wife, etc., and soon my question was answered, and the filmakers not only told more stories about Ahmet's wife, they actually interviewed her for the movie and incorporated her thoughts into this film, which I thought was a brilliant way to bring out more of Ahmet's character, and not just focus on the record businesss itself...
Overall, I felt fairly enlightened about the early record industry, after watching this film and was pretty much in awe of the much "beloved" Ahmet, (love him or hate him), and how he helped to single-handledly "create" the music that we all listened to on the radio and in our rooms in various stages of maturity and coherence. Marc
I too learned a lot about the early record industry and musicians that I would otherwise not have known. Loved your apt quotes Oldman.
A shout out to Greybob ,you obviously enjoy satire, why don't you put your 'OTBP' writing talent into saying something 'real' as I think you could probably add a lot if you chose to be sane.
I appreciate your kind condolence Craig.
My definition of Off The Beaten Path ?
This dialogue has really forced me to rethink the question, so thank you to everyone!
Let me define it as it pertains specifically to films on this website.( I think Filmluver and MCOT hit it right on the head!)
OTBP is one that the majority of the U.S. film going public would not have seen. Perhaps the movies didn’t get much media attention and or play in the U.S. They may however, be well known and marketed somewhere else in the world.
It does not mean the BEST films out there or the most UNUSUAL.I totally agree,it does not refer to ‘Indie’ films in general as many of these do indeed become mainstream. (last years ‘Juno’is a great example!) In fact some of these OTBP films have a ‘mainstream’ or traditional format, plot etc.
Not every OTBP movie I choose needs to be what I would consider a ‘Top Ten’ but it has to be one that impresses me and or stands out from the crowd in some significant way.
Again, thanks to everyone for helping narrow this down a bit. I now think that under this defintion 'Atlantic Records' WOULD be be considered Off The Beaten Path.
Hi all: I am new to this blog. I am a frequent blogger, (I am a Cleveland newspaper movie critic, but cannot reveal my identity), and was very impressed with Lee's OTBP site! I have not yet seen the "Atlantic Records" film, although I am familiar with its origins. I plan on getting involved in this wonderful blog with the next film on the agenda...See you all in a couple of weeks. My parting comment is that I am impressed with all your insightful comments, especially with 'GreyBob's' "insane" but incredibly well documented and researched thoughts, including the obscure, (and not well known fact about Ron Howard's input into this film). Bravo GreyBob, and see you all soon...
Welcome aboard mfeebmovie,glad you found us. Greybob, seems you have a fan! I am looking forward to watching 'The Lives of Others' tonight for the 2nd time. It's been a while since I saw it. It's been a good few weeks of film watching so the 'Lee Just Watched' list should be fun too. And maybe some new pics. Hope you all enjoy the film!
My thanks go to Marc and Greybob, the yin and yang of movies! Marc, love the way you develop your arguments carefully, letting us know what you are going to do, then doing it. Your knowledge and insights are a pleasure to read. Greybob, you are the zen master - you have lost the movie in order to truely find it. Your meanderings challenge the very limits of our comprehension. Both of you, keep it comming! I can't wait to see your thoughts on The Lives of Others
Greybob, I must admit that while reading your post I employed the SOD factor big time.. I was tempted to exclaim ,GMAB! However, there seems to be some method behind your madness. At the very least, a sort of virtuostic poetry......Much appreciated and FAH.
p.s. welcome to 'perfectfit', glad you are back marc, and thanks as always to breather and oldman for the excellent input.
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